Thursday, February 3, 2005

A debate?

As you will see we have a serious problem here and the death of Ananias and Saphira can actually prove that the Bible is false.

The problem is in you, not God's word  

 Great response! What's wrong are you unable to reason through that the story is seriously flawed and contradicts what nearly all the N.T. authors wrote regarding God's grace. C'mon don't you like to be challenged, don't you like to debate?

Rom 9:17  For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might show my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18  Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19  Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20  Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21  Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22  What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23  And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Rom 9:24  Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 Thank you for replying. This passage speaks clearly on the God of wrath from the O.T. alluding to the time of Pharaoh (9:18) remember he hardened Pharoah's heart, when he used wrath and destruction (9:22) as a means to an end. This passage can be summed up by reading 9:23-24. It states in summary that we all are now products of his mercy that is the elect, the Jews and the Gentiles. I don't mean this in a negative way but this passage really gives more support for my argument than it does for yours. Since the death of Christ we are now living in the age of grace. Mercy seems to mirror grace which by definition is unmeritted favor. I have studied the Bible for many years and can not find any N.T. verses that would support the God of wrath we see in the story of Ananias and Saphira. Everything I come across in the N.Y. points to grace being the way God handles situations since Christ paid the ransom for all sin. I welcome any thoughts.  

remember he hardened Pharoah's heart, when he used wrath

It is God's desire to increase our choices. If we sin he allows us to continue until we nearly destroy ourselves, then  if we are worth our salt we will turn to him, instead of rebelling.

  Rom 1:17  For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom 1:18  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19  Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them.
Rom 1:20  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21  Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22  Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23  And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.Rom 1:24  Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25  Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26  For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27  And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28  And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 

  If they repent and come to their senses, God is waiting for them.

Luke 15:17  And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
Luke 15:18  I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
Luke 15:19  And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
Luke 15:20  And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

Ananias and Sapphira were examples to the new church that God does not want hypocrisy, lying to the Holy Ghost.   The fact that you are still here, is an example of God's long suffering and grace towards the backslider.

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